ļ»æOUTLINE
0:00 - 4:55: Introduction to Mel Kettle and discussion of self-leadership, communication, and relationships.
4:55 - 12:00: Exploration of money mindset, beliefs, and boundaries, including the impact of childhood experiences.
12:00 - 19:00: Reframing financial mindset, prioritising values, and making intentional money decisions.
19:00 - 27:00: Prioritising values and work-life balance, particularly for mothers and professionals.
27:00 - 35:00: Money boundaries, including lending to friends, and the emotional impact of setting boundaries.
35:00 - 43:00: Money values and goals in long-term relationships, emphasising open communication and joint decision-making.
43:00 - 50:00: Self-leadership, sleep, confidence, and the importance of financial independence and boundaries for women.
THE ERIN DAVIS SHOW
Erin Davis
Before we get started today, I just wanted to share with you the planning day that I am hosting in September at the most beautiful place, Carrington house. Now this Planning Day is where I invite you to slow down and create a heart centred plan which really aligns with your unique vision. There will be other women at the event, and they'll all be working on their own business. However, together, collectively, we will bounce ideas off each other. We will plan and come up with that unique plan that you need to focus on for your business for the next 90 days. I know that when you take time to pause and slow down and just remove yourself from the hustle and bustle of the everyday, you actually give yourself the space and the capacity to be able to really just think about what it is that you want from your business what you want to achieve, and giving yourself that space and that time just allows the creativity to flow. And I also find that being in the space of Carrington house, you immediately feel such a sense of relief as soon as you walk through the front doors. It is a calming and expansive and abundant place that really just invites you to really just take a deep look into what it is that you want from your business where you need to focus. And the whole idea of this planning day is that we connect with like minded women and really just hone in on what it is that you want to do for the next 90 days. Because when there are so many things to do, it feels a bit like, well, I don't really know where to start. I don't know what to focus on. And you can sit there and procrastinate, look at all the things you have to do, and then actually achieve nothing. So the Planning Day is getting really clear and focused on what it is that you want to achieve and taking the action steps to make it happen. So if you want to come along to the planning day and you're local to Newcastle. The link will be in the show notes, but it's www.erindavis.com.au/planning There are limited spaces available because I want to keep it nice and intimate and close and connected, and spaces are filling. So if you want to come along, I would suggest you hop in and purchase your ticket, and then just really focus on your business for that whole day. So that's the Planning Day.
But today's episode is a beautiful interview that I did with Mel kettle, and now Mel works with leaders and teams to help them communicate to create real connection and sustained engagement. She does this through facilitating strategy workshops, training, coaching and speaking at conferences and events, and she's also written two books. The conversation that we had was all about money and Mel's journey through business, and I really just loved the conversation that we had. So I hope you enjoy the episode today. If you did subscribe, follow and reach out to Mel, because she's such a beautiful soul, and I'm very grateful to have her on my podcast. And I really hope you enjoy today's episode. I've just done a little introduction, but thank you so much for joining me today. Do you want to just share with our listeners a bit about you and where you're from and what your business is all about? Yeah,
Mel Kettle
Thanks, Erin. It's great to be here. I'm a leadership communication. Connection specialist, I work with leaders and teams to help them communicate, to create real connection and sustained engagement. And I do that through facilitating strategy sessions, running training on all sorts of communication techniques, how to have difficult conversations, how to give and receive feedback, when to use email versus actually having a conversation with someone. And I'm also really interested in the concept of self leadership, because I believe if we don't lead ourselves first, and if we don't look after ourselves and prioritise ourselves, and you know, do the boring things like get enough sleep, eat the right food, drink enough water, don't overindulge with caffeine or alcohol too frequently. Then if we don't do those things, then it makes it much more difficult to communicate in a way that is going to strengthen and improve the relationships that we have, both at home and at work.
Erin Davis
I love that because I really love that whole self leadership space, because, like you said, if you don't put yourself first and you don't do things that you need to do for you, you can't show up as your best self, and therefore you can't lead and impact and influence or even inspire other people to to do what you need to do. So I think, yeah, that self leadership space is such a an important place to be, and
Mel Kettle
I think we need to remember that people do business with people they know, love and trust, and so if you're a complete dick at work or a total bitch or cranky all the time, then people aren't going to want to follow you. And leaders need followers in order to be able to lead. So I feel like so many people underestimate the importance of looking after themselves, and you know, having things like healthy boundaries in place, and knowing when to say no and knowing when to say yes, and knowing, you know, knowing how to listen as well, and how to take the time to really listen to people in your life when they need something from you or they want to run something past you,
Erin Davis
Yeah, and I did a breakfast networking session yesterday, and it was all about wellness and surveillance of staff, and they were talking a lot about that trust and the communication. Everything comes from trust, and it's those little moments of trust that are built throughout the day and throughout the week, and using those moments of connection and vulnerability enables those harder conversations to maybe not even be needed later on. But they're so much easier because there's that level of trust that's there beforehand. So I found that really interesting, because we know all of this stuff right, but to have it put in that way just really reiterated that that importance of boundaries, the importance of creating that third space between home and work and work or home, but then how trust comes into all of those things, particularly when it comes to boundaries.
Mel Kettle
Oh, it's so true. And you know, the more you have a trusted relationship with someone, and the more you have a positive relationship with them, then, as you said, it's far easier to have those difficult conversations. And you know it means when you get an email saying, Have you got five minutes? Can you come into my office? We need to have a chat. You don't have that immediate sense of, oh, shit, what have I done?
Erin Davis
Yeah, that's crazy. That's crazy. Yeah. So I want to get your thoughts on, particularly around money, mindset and confidence. Why do people procrastinate in this space of setting boundaries, you know, taking control of their money really just that self first, like that self leadership in this space. Why do you think that people are procrastinating in that area to look after themselves. First Look,
Mel Kettle
I did this really great course a few years ago, or like a one day training program with a mate of mine and one of them and it was about money. And one of the things he said is that everyone has money hang ups, everyone's got the things about money that have been embedded in their psyche from when they were children. And I thought about that and thought, yeah, you're so right. And so have a think about, how do you, how would you, how was money talked about in your household as a child, and not even, how was it talked about, but what were some of the things that your parents and other influences in your life as children, and how did they react about money? One of the things in my childhood was that my mother would always buy things on sale whether she needed them or not, and it was a bargain. And so I grew up with this mentality of, you never pay full price for anything. So. Which. And I remember the first time I paid full price for a jacket, I was like, Oh my God, I've just paid full price. I'm sure I could have waited for it to go on sale, but if I'd waited, I wouldn't have it now, and I needed it, it might not ever go on sale, or my size might sell out. And so that's a money, a money mindset that I've had for a long time, that it's taken me a lot of work to overcome. And so, and that's a really simple one. And so I feel that as we look at money and look at boundaries that we put around money, we need to really be aware of why we have the beliefs that we have around money. Is it a belief around and you know, there's so many beliefs around money. There's a belief that women shouldn't earn more than their husbands. There's a belief that a lot of women have a belief that they're not worthy of earning a million dollars a year, for example. And so how do you then put boundaries around some of those beliefs so that you can just shut them out and do what's right for you and important for you.
Erin Davis
And I find that you know, we don't even necessarily know what these beliefs are until we start to become aware of them, and we start to become really focused on how they're impacting us and how they show up in our life, because most of the time, these things are such a subconscious level thought, and it's ingrained in us that we just show up and do what we need to do without even realising that, like your mum, for instance, was all about the bargain, and then that just translates to us, and we don't even really give it a thought until we stop and become really aware and really in tune with what it is that we're thinking, how is it impacting us? And is that serving us? Because some of these beliefs are okay, but if it doesn't serve you, and it holds you back from stepping up, taking the opportunity, you know, jumping in and buying that jacket without hesitating or making you feel guilty or bad, or I've done the wrong thing, then we really need to do something about it.
Mel Kettle
Oh, absolutely. And it's also, you know, think about what are some of the values and beliefs that you're passing on to people in your life, whether it's your kids or, you know, other people who listen to you, what do you want them to believe? And think about the language that you use. I've got a friend who recently said to me, I know I couldn't possibly do that. I can't afford it. And I just looked at her and went, That's not correct. I said, you could afford it. You've got more money than I know. Then you know, you know what to do with it's not a matter of, you can't afford it. It's not a priority for you. And so why don't we start using language instead of saying, I can't afford it, it's saying things like, it's not a priority. I mean, obviously there's things that some people can't afford, and that's a totally different situation. But rather than saying something isn't a priority, then that helps embed in your mind that it takes that scarcity away and that scarcity, yeah, and I feel like so many people have this scarcity mindset when it comes to money, as opposed to and that impacts how much money comes into your Life as well as what you do with it,
Erin Davis
Then I think if you're always in that scarcity frame, it's always looking at that glass half empty stuff, rather than, you know, where's the opportunities? If it was important, then you would make it a priority. Like I've had people say to me, you know, if you need braces for your kids, you would find the money. And I know braces are super expensive, because I've in the second all the second child good braces, but it's, it's expensive. However we've found the money, we've found we've made a way to make it work, because it was the priority. It was the thing that we needed to have done. However, if we had said, Well, we just can't and obviously people just can't at times, but there are we're not talking about those things. We're talking about that discretionary spending, that that a lot of people have, or that choice that people want to make. If they're always saying, No, I can't afford it, then they're closing themselves off to the opportunities that are out there. Yeah,
Mel Kettle
exactly. And it's also figuring out, you know, what are your priorities? So we've just been on holiday, and we went to Japan, and it was amazing. But I look at how we did this holiday, and my husband and I had the view of, we won't turn down an opportunity when we're over there, if it's something that we really want to do, we won't say no because of the money, if it's something that's expensive that we wouldn't normally do, but then again, we'd have a conversation around, is it something that's going to cost us $5,000 or is it something that's going to cost us $50 one of my friends recommended a restaurant to us. To have where he said it's one of the best meals he's ever eaten. And I thought, great, I'd love to go there. And I looked at it, and it was $600 a person. And I said to Sean, do you want to go to this restaurant? He went, Yeah, great. And I said, it's $600 each. And he said, that's a lot of food that we could eat on that holiday, $600 and I said, yeah, no, I'm not that keen to eat beef that costs that much money. So you prioritise things, but if we both really wanted to, then we would have done it. And I feel like that's so many things in life that you say yes or no to based on how important it is to you, and the more we can be conscious of what are our core priorities in life, then the more you can allocate money to those things or to achieving those things. So you know, if you're wanting to go somewhere, then you save for it. If you're wanting to do something, you save for it, or you make sacrifices in other ways where you can and I feel like a lot of people want the biggest and the brightest and the best of everything today, not realising that you appreciate things that are big and bright and the best so much more when you have to work for it and make sacrifices to achieve it.
Erin Davis
I also think too if that big, bright, shiny thing is something that you actually really want, makes a huge difference, because if it is something that is just because you feel like you need to have it, or you should have it, or everybody else has got it, then it takes away that feeling of joy and connectedness and appreciation for that thing, and then you get the guilt or the shame about spending money on something that then doesn't bring you the joy that you thought it would. So I think there's a real connection piece there between working out, like you said, your values, what is really important to you and and I think when you're clear on that, you can then make decisions about money, about life, about anything so much quicker and so much easier, and they feel in flow and feel aligned, and you don't have that guilt and shame that's attached to it. So I think coming back to those values at the very beginning, and being very clear on it, what it is that is important to you, then underlies everything else in your life.
Mel Kettle
Oh, I absolutely agree with you. And particularly, you know, we're talking a lot about money. But the other thing that you mentioned is, where do you spend your time? How do you spend your time? And I remember saying, like, one of the pieces of work I do with a lot of my clients is a values exercise to work out, what are your core values and what are your core priorities? And one of my clients said to me, my core priorities are my kids. And I went, great, but you've just told me you work 18 hour days, six days a week. When do you see your kids? Yeah, and then yeah. And he said, everything I'm doing, I'm doing for them. And I said, Yeah, but they don't know you. How are they getting to know you, and how are they getting to develop relationships with you and you with them when you're working so much. It just made him reflect on what he was, why he was doing what he was doing. And you know, he made some changes. He didn't stop working 18 hour days, but he just worked different at a different 18 hours of the day so that he could see his kids in the morning and do the school drop off, and, you know, be there at dinner time, and, you know, read them stories when they went to bed, and then do a bit more work from home afterwards, if he wanted to. And he instigated, you know, one day a week, which was either a Saturday or a Sunday, where there'd be no technology. He wouldn't have his phone with him. He'd just spend it doing stuff with his kids and his wife. And the impact that that had on every aspect of his life was enormous because he hadn't fully realised that he wasn't actually spending the time with the people who meant the most to him.
Erin Davis
Yeah, that's so powerful, isn't it, because he's still doing exactly the same work, however he's reframed how he does that work and how he thinks about the work. And I think a lot of people, or a lot of mums in particular, feel like family should be their highest value, and that's one thing that they think that they need to have as a value. Just because you don't have family as your highest value doesn't mean you don't love your kids and you don't love your family. It just means that there are other things that provide that fulfilment and that joy, because of course you're going to love your kids and of course you're going to be there for your kids. But I think really getting honest with yourself and choosing those values that drive you and fill you up and make you connected and make you aligned is then what makes you a better mom, a better partner, a better. A wife, a better employee, a better business owner. I think, yeah, I think that those things are really important to come back to those values. And I think
Mel Kettle
For a lot of women who are mums, that would it's very confronting to realise that your family or your kids are not always going to be your highest priority in terms of where you spend your time. Remember, one of my friends couldn't wait to be a mother, and she adores her children, but she went back to work when the youngest one was three months old, or when the first one was three months old, because she said, I can't I'm losing myself. I can't stand the person I'm becoming because I'm not having adult conversations. And she was fortunate that she could, you know, afford that her boss said, yes, come back nine months early, and that she could afford to get some support from outside of the home to help look after her baby. But she said, I'm just a better mother when I can be mentally stimulated and have adult conversation and do things that light me up. And she said, I've realised that I love my job and I love the work I do. I love the people I work with. I love the contribution that I'm making to my workplace and to society more broadly. And if I just stay at home doing housework and playing with a baby who sleeps 90% of the time, I'm just not a good person, yeah, and she grappled with that for a long time. She felt guilty for a long time.
Erin Davis
I think as women, we do tend to hold on to those expectations of what we should do, what we shouldn't do, and that then translates into every aspect of our life, including the money and the mindset and the confidence piece. Because as women, everything is all connected, right? So if you're feeling guilty for showing up in this way, in doing this particular thing, more than likely it's also going to show up in another area of your life as well.
Mel Kettle
Oh, absolutely, yeah, absolutely. So right at the beginning of this conversation, we started talking about boundaries around money, and I feel like there's a few areas where we need to be aware of where we have boundaries with money, and obviously it's where we prioritise our money, what we spend it on, what we don't spend it on, how we use it, but an area where I think we don't talk a lot about a boundary is, what do you do when someone asks you to borrow money? Do you lend it, or do you give it, or do you just say no? And I certainly have worked with and know quite a few people who, when they're asked to borrow money, will just say they don't want to, but they don't know how to say no, what? Particularly if it's a family member or if it's, you know, my husband and I are starting to have the conversation around what will we say if my stepson says, can you go guarantor on a home loan? For me, the answer is no. If you're listening, it's no, but don't even ask
Erin Davis
Yeah, but that is such a good conversation, isn't it, because that then brings into all of those feelings we have about yourself, if we say no or if we say yes, what does that mean about us, and how will we be perceived? And are we a good person? Are we not good people? You know, most people want to help other people out. However, where's that limit and where's the boundary? And how does that impact ourselves, if we do say something yes to something that is not in alignment with our values,
Mel Kettle
and how does it impact the relationship with the person? So if your best friend comes to you and says, I'm in a financial bind. Can you lend me $10,000 assuming you've got $10,000 you can lend. What would you do, and what would happen if they didn't pay it back? How would that impact your relationship with that person?
Erin Davis
Yeah, it's um, that is a good question. So what would you do?
Mel Kettle
I say, No, I don't win money. No, never, no, no, never. Although I did recently have a friend who was a bit stuck, and I gave her some money, not a lot. I just knew that she was just having a few issues. And I just said, Give me your bank details. I put some money in the bank and she said, let me know when you want it back. And I said, No, I don't just pay it forward one day to somebody else, if you can, and if you can't,
Erin Davis
There's a difference. There's a difference, though, isn't there? It's different by lending money, gifting money. So gifting is totally different to lending. There's a different energy attached to it, and a different expectation that comes with it. And I think then also to receiving that money, there is a very different energy around it as well, exactly.
Mel Kettle
And you know, she was really grateful, and it made me feel like I'd done a good thing to help a friend, like a really good friend. There's not many people I'd give money to, but it is. Yeah, it's just, I felt good about it, and she felt she was embarrassed, but she said, I'm receiving it with the grace with which you gave it. Yeah, yeah, We've never had a beautiful thing you could do for your friend.
Oh, I know, I know, but she's done so many beautiful things for me, and that's what friendships are about. It's about give and take. And you know, if we lived closer, I would have probably just cooked dinner every night for a week, and so relieved her of the burden of buying groceries and cooking dinner. And so it's just like, I feel like, and again, it's a money hang up. It's one of the things that my parents taught me. I remember my dad when I bought my first house, I ran up to my mum and dad and said, I bought a house. I was talking to my dad. I said, I need to, can you lend me some money? Because I've it's more than I thought, and there's a few bigger bills that I have the money to pay. And he said, Oh, how much do you need? And I said, Oh, just $5,000 and he said, Oh, is that all? And I said, Yep, that's all. And he said, Oh, I thought you wanted to ask for way more. And I'm there thinking way more than five grand. And I said, How much do you think I need? And he said, I thought you were going to ask for 50 to 100,000 and I'm just like, was that even an option? I had no idea that was even an option. And he said it would have been until last week, we've just bought an investment property, and I'm like, Oh, my God, it's probably good. I didn't know that. Yeah, yeah. But then when I went to pay it back a year later, he said to me, no, that was a gift. I didn't I never expected you to give me that money back. And I just remember thinking, that is the kindest thing that has happened to me for a very long time. Yeah, yeah. And it's, um,
Erin Davis
It's funny how everybody's value of money is different. Like, you were asking for $5,000 thinking that that was, you know, that's a lot of money, in which it is I was anxious about asking, and then your dad is like, no, 50, 100 What do you need?
Mel Kettle
I don't think that would have been a gift, probably not. But you know, when I went to pay it back, he said to me, no, I took your brother on holiday last year and you didn't come. So that was about what we spent on that holiday. And so I wanted to do something for you, but I was waiting until I found the right thing. Yeah, yeah. Oh, well, that's actually really helpful, a good thing. So thank you. Yeah, yeah.
Erin Davis
So we've sort of touched on your relationship with money a little bit around that bargain mentality. What else is your relationship with money like? Or what is it like now, compared to what it was like before, when you had that, that bargain sale mentality,
Mel Kettle
I still do have that bargain sale mentality, like I do love a good bargain, but I don't buy things for the sake of buying them. I feel like I've always had quite a good relationship with money. I've always been a saver, like I've always saved for something that I've wanted, and I've never really been a spender, like I've never really bought with the exception of books. I've got so many books and maybe stationery. I've never been someone who's just spent money for the sake of it. I've because I don't like having a lot of stuff. And so I've always, I guess, we were taught to save for that rainy day as well. And you know, my mum and dad were born in 1936 and 1939 and so mum, my mom, especially, born in 1936 was really impacted by World War Two, and has had very strong memories of growing up in the depression and not having having to make do with everything, having to make sure that every purchase had a purpose, and it wasn't just for the sake of looking pretty on The meth place. And my dad's view was a bit different. He had a lot more money growing up than my mother did. Lived in England, and so it was a different environment, but I feel that they instilled really good values in both my brother and I when it comes to money. And I remember when I was single and really keen to, you know, find the right person in my life. One of my friends said to me, what are you looking for in a man? And I said, financial compatibility. And they're like, yeah, they're very sexy. And I said, I know, but I look at quite a few of my friends whose relationships and marriages have broken down, and it's because they've had very different views about money, about how to earn it, about how to spend it, about how to save it, and I don't want that,
Erin Davis
yeah, and that is like we were talking before, about boundaries. If you have such opposing thoughts and values around money, inevitably it's going to cause friction. In that relationship. Yeah, so I think being really clear at the beginning what those boundaries are, and saying that this is important to me, this is the way that I want to live my life. And these are so strong that I can't negotiate on them, or I can't vary, you know, deviate from them. These are the important things for me. And I think being super clear on those values then makes that easier to make that decision, doesn't it like because if you took a partner that had completely conflicting values to you on that money front, I don't think you would be together for very long. No,
Mel Kettle
we wouldn't be. And you know, there's definitely things that we both spend money on. I look at some of the things he spends money on and go, you've gotta be kidding me, and I'm fairly sure he would do the same with me. But we've got shared goals when it comes to money, and we talk about them a lot. You know what? We've been together 20 years. Next week. Can't quite believe that, but we bought a house together within a year of getting together, and we just set, we set short term and long term financial goals when we bought that house, and we've always worked towards those. We talk about them a lot. We talk about our financial future a lot. And we made a commitment to each other right from the beginning that any large purchases that one of us wanted to make, we would make a joint decision about that, whether it was him buying new golf clubs, whether it was me, you know, doing whatever. And even in my business, my business is me, and he has no involvement in it. From a legal or a business perspective, but all of my business decisions impact us as a couple, because it's a significant portion of our family household income, and so I swing a lot of those past him as well, because he's an accountant, so he's got good money sense, but there's an impact for both of us, and I feel like by having a lot of open and honest conversations about money over the years has really helped us achieve a lot of our financial goals, but also means that there's no friction when it comes to money between us.
Erin Davis
I love that that is that is so powerful because I I'm an accountant as well, and I see a lot of clients coming in where one partner doesn't have a clue as to what's going on or what's happening with the with the money situation, and that they seem to be just completely oblivious to it. And I feel like that their relationship would be stronger if they were able to have those open conversations and make decisions together. And I know that's not always the case for a lot of people. However, I think if you value this financial stability and value financial freedom, then it's really important to be able to have those conversations and have that support so you don't have to make all those decisions by yourself. Yeah, exactly.
Mel Kettle
And I think when you're in a relationship as well, it depends. A lot of the money conversations come from, how do you manage your money together? Are you all in with joint accounts for nearly everything, or do you have your money and your partner has their money? And then you have a, you know, a kitty for the shared stuff. And then what happens when you have kids? I've got a friend who met her partner. They were renting a place together. So it was her money. She had her money. He had his money. They had a joint account that they both put money into to pay for the rent and household expenses. And then they got married, and they split the cost of the wedding between the two families. And then they had a baby, and he expected that she would pay the bulk of the baby costs, because she was the one that was pregnant, and that she had to pay the medical costs because it was her body. And she was like, Well, I can't work for six months at least. And he's like, yeah. And so he said, Well, have you got savings? And she's like, we need to renegotiate the money conversation.
Erin Davis
Yeah, that's a huge conversation, isn't it, because it is not up to the woman to fund having a baby, like, you're in this together. It should be a joint conversation. It impacts the family wealth and the family income, yeah, and he's a part of that family, and so is she. So yeah, they need to have that conversation together, that this impacts our family, yeah. So what is the cost to the family, not just the cost to me? Yeah,
Mel Kettle
and it was a planned pregnancy. It wasn't one of those, whoops, I'm pregnant. They both wanted to have a child, multiple children, and they both made assumptions and had expectations about what would happen from a financial perspective, during and after the pregnancy. And that goes
Erin Davis
back to that conversation, doesn't it? The trust, the vulnerability. The action of conversation as well, what's important, what's not important. How is it going to work? And be totally open and honest at the very beginning. So then you don't get so far down the track, she's nine months pregnant, and go, oh shit. What do we do now? How do we manage this child? It's really a conversation that needs to happen early, yeah, yeah,
Mel Kettle
so they got through that. But I would imagine there'd be other couples in that situation who did not, who would not get through
Erin Davis
it, yeah. So digressing a little. You spoke at the very beginning about self leadership. What do you like to do? What are your self care practices and the game changes that have been so impactful for you and in your business, because as we know I'm all about money, mindset and confidence, and I think it's all in one night, nice little package. So what do you like to do for your self care so that you can thrive in both your personal life and your business.
Mel Kettle
So we moved from Brisbane to the Sunshine Coast about three years ago. And the reason we did, and there's lots of reasons, but the main reason that it all came about as quickly as it did, is because we were on holiday at a beach, and I said to my husband, we need to move to the beach. I need to walk on the beach every day. And so walking on the beach, it's one of the biggest things that I do for my self care. And just living at the beach, I just get so much of a sense of destress and relaxation from seeing the ocean, and I find it very calming. And so that's probably the biggest thing that I do, apart from that's probably the second biggest thing I do. The biggest thing I do is get enough sleep. I completely revolutionised my sleep health about five years ago because I recognized that I was only getting about five nights, five hours of sleep a night, because of menopause and travel and a snoring husband and all of the other things, and I just realised that I wasn't even in bed for enough hours to get enough sleep. So I now have a really solid evening routine where I wind down in the evening. We don't have dinner after 7pm we normally have, you know, have dinner, sort of 637 done by seven. I go to bed at nine. 930 lights are out. By 10, I have a hot shower so that I can get my brain feeling like I've got a full rhythm of what I do in the evening. And on an ideal morning, I don't have to set an alarm. Just waking up at seven o'clock and going to sleep is probably the biggest thing, and that has had a positive impact on every part of my life. It means that I've got energy to think about cooking a healthy dinner and to cook a healthy dinner rather than just having cheese on toast or getting takeaway. It means that I've got energy to exercise. It means that I've got energy to think clearly through issues and challenges that arise over the course of a work day,
Erin Davis
Then I presume that that would lead into a much better mindset and confidence levels would be through the roof because you're not listening to you're not tired for one and I think when you're tired and exhausted, that negative self talk increases significantly, because then you feel like a failure because you can't do anything. So I presume that the mindset and the confidence piece would be so much stronger now that you are now walking on the beach, living by the beach all the time, and sleeping better,
Mel Kettle
All those things, all those things. And I think the other thing is from when it comes to self confidence, like I've never lacked for confidence, but as I get older, my care factor for what other people think about me has diminished significantly. There was a real shift when I turned 40 about what people think about me. And you know, when I turned 40 as well, my mum died and then my dad died, and that made me realise that there's a whole lot more in the world that's important than what someone who I don't know on Twitter thinks about what I look like, they can just get in the bin. And then when I turned 50, my can, I swear my fuck it, factor increased even higher. And I remember my husband, Sean, was a bit anxious about me turning 50, because he witnessed what happened when I turned 40, and he was prepared for it. He was not prepared. But I just think that getting older, you realise that you've got less time left on earth, and so your core priorities, for me at least, became so much more important. And. I'm much more conscious of wanting to do things that are important to me in life, and listening to people who don't know me or whose opinions mean nothing to me have zero precedence in my life these days.
Erin Davis
Yeah, I love that. So what about your money? Confidence? How has that changed and grown over the years?
Mel Kettle
I'm in a really good position financially now, and I've worked really hard to get into that position. I've, you know, we have made, we've made some really smart financial decisions, and we've made a few duds, but fortunately, the duds weren't too duddy. And yeah, I'm confident. I'm confident about the one thing that I do, and I have this conversation a fair bit, and I'm in my mid 50s now, and I have a lot of conversations we're having around are around, how much money will we need to retire? What does retirement look like? I love my job, and I don't want to stop, but I do want to slow down with the number of hours I work and the kind of work I'm doing. And so I do sometimes wish there was this little crystal ball where we knew how many years we had left and how much money we needed to make it last. Because, you know, as I said to Sean, if I knew we had only 10 years left, then I could stop working now, but if I've got 50, then I've got probably another 10 years of work left at least, so that there's enough to live the life that you want to live.
Erin Davis
Yeah, and that comes back to those boundaries, doesn't it? Comes back to those values of what's important, what's not important, but then also just really connecting into what's important overall. And I think when you do have those strong values and boundaries, it's um, makes all those decisions so much easier. Yeah,
Mel Kettle
it does. It does. It really does.
Erin Davis
So what is there anything else you would like to share with our listeners? Or where can they get in contact with you?
Mel Kettle
You can get in contact with me through my website, www.melkettle.com or on LinkedIn, Instagram, @ mel kettle everywhere. I think one of the things that I'd like to leave your listeners with is to have a good look at what makes you happy in life and what doesn't. And if there's things in your life that you're dissatisfied with. Pick one of them and make some changes. Look at whether you need to have healthy boundaries in place or not around that one thing that is making you less than happy or satisfied. I have a resource on my website that might help you. It's a free checklist to see whether you do need healthy boundaries and how you can and some ideas as to how you can put them in place. So that's at www.melkettle.com/boundaries
Erin Davis
Iā€™ll put the link in the show notes anyway, so people can reach out to you and connect with you. Thank you, Mel, for this conversation. I think it's really important to be having conversations around boundaries and values, because, as I said before, money is connected to everything. Our money, mindset and confidence for women, is connected to everything. So if you have got one area of your life that is not working as it should, I would suspect that there are other areas in your life showing up the same way. So being able to be really clear on those boundaries and how that impacts you and how it makes you feel is so important to make sure you're on top of Yeah. So thank you, Mel, for sharing.
Mel Kettle
Can I just add one more thing before we go? Absolutely, yeah. One of the things we haven't talked about, but I'm really one of the things that I think is really important in a healthy relationship is that you all have an account, a bank account, with money in it that's only in your name. And when I first met Sean, we pulled a lot of our finances, but I kept a bank account that was just in my name. And we call it my not very secret, secret bank account, because he knows about it. He doesn't know how much money is in it. Neither do I most of the time, because I never look at it, but I know that it's got money in it, that if I need something for an emergency, it's there and and there's been times where I had to use that money to pay more to make a mortgage repayment. There's been times where I've had to use it, where I've chosen to use it for a holiday, and it doesn't have like it's never got more than about $5,000 in it, but it's just something that is really important for all people just to have that, and for women in particular, because it gives you choices. If you need to quit your job, if you need to, you know, leave a bad relationship, it's enough money that can help you get away without feeling trapped.
Erin Davis
I think that financial independence, financial literacy, financial understanding, is so important. So I really love that you brought that up, because I think that is so important. Like you said, women have a choice, and you are so stuck and so limited when your financial situation is not good or it's not strong, so being able to be prepared for whatever reason. It may not be that you need to leave, but there may be something that you need for you, but just having that security and that independence to be able to make choices is crucial. Yeah,
Mel Kettle
I totally agree. Could not agree more, yeah, yeah, sure. Well,
Erin Davis
Thank you. Mel, I really enjoyed our conversation. I will put all the links in the show notes below. And if you want to explore boundaries further, then absolutely connecting with Mel,
Mel Kettle
Thanks so much. Erin, thanks everyone.
